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	<title>Comments for The Ratings Debate</title>
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		<title>Comment on OK, Agencies, Your Turn&#8230; by Cate Long</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/ok-agencies-your-turn/comment-page-1/#comment-140</link>
		<dc:creator>Cate Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?p=595#comment-140</guid>
		<description>Excellent approach by the FDIC... kudos to them for their willingness to try a new approach... very creative!

OT.... and FYI...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/business/global/20rating.html?ref=business</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent approach by the FDIC&#8230; kudos to them for their willingness to try a new approach&#8230; very creative!</p>
<p>OT&#8230;. and FYI&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/business/global/20rating.html?ref=business" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/20/business/global/20rating.html?ref=business</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Check and Double Check by Cate Long</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/check-and-double-check/comment-page-1/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>Cate Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?p=509#comment-81</guid>
		<description>Exposing ratings performance to public scrutiny is one of the most powerful parts of the rulemaking the SEC has undertaken.

Moodys former compliance officer testified to the House Oversight and Reform Committee last month that Moodys did no surveillance of its muni ratings. They issued them and then left them static although they continued to bill the issuer.

This means that retail investors who were sold those securities had no specific or general sense of the accuracy of the rating or the pricing that derived from the rating.

I&#039;m sure that once the ratings are available for analysis we will see lots of market and academic scrutiny of ratings accuracy.  Long overdue.

The SEC is requiring the raters to expose the histories in XBRL for more ready comparison. Here is a presentation that I gave at a conference at the FDIC last month on the topic:

http://shopyield.com/2009/10/06/xbrl-and-credit-ratings/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exposing ratings performance to public scrutiny is one of the most powerful parts of the rulemaking the SEC has undertaken.</p>
<p>Moodys former compliance officer testified to the House Oversight and Reform Committee last month that Moodys did no surveillance of its muni ratings. They issued them and then left them static although they continued to bill the issuer.</p>
<p>This means that retail investors who were sold those securities had no specific or general sense of the accuracy of the rating or the pricing that derived from the rating.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that once the ratings are available for analysis we will see lots of market and academic scrutiny of ratings accuracy.  Long overdue.</p>
<p>The SEC is requiring the raters to expose the histories in XBRL for more ready comparison. Here is a presentation that I gave at a conference at the FDIC last month on the topic:</p>
<p><a href="http://shopyield.com/2009/10/06/xbrl-and-credit-ratings/" rel="nofollow">http://shopyield.com/2009/10/06/xbrl-and-credit-ratings/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on What is a Toxic Security? by Doug Wilding</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/what-is-a-toxic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Wilding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?page_id=306#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Mr. Perry-
 
You’ve asked several excellent questions.  And you hit the nail on the head regarding some of our strongest issues with the current ratings system.  The current ratings system has no way of representing the magnitude of losses on a security.  The ratings provided by the rating agencies reflect the likelihood of a bond not paying 100% of principal, but make no representation of how much principal they are projecting will be lost once that bond is determined not to pay back 100% of principal.  For example:  Are you going to lose all of your money or just 1%?  The current system does not tell us this.  This becomes a serious issue when dealing with multiple-obligor securities.  The example you provided refers to a multi-obligor security (in this case a Mortgage-Backed Security) which is comprised of a large amount of excellent borrowers who are still paying their mortgages as contracted.  Unfortunately, in your example, the rating on the bond would be downgraded to CCC or lower, even if all 900 paying borrowers continued to pay their mortgages until full payment is made. 
 
For an individual investor, the rating may not be prohibitive.  However, for banks that own this security, once it’s been downgraded to below investment grade (and possibly purchased originally with a AAA rating), the entire balance of their investment will be classified as substandard.  You read that right.  Even the “performing” portion of the security will be classified since the entire security has been rated CCC (or worse).  
 
As you might suspect, this in turn creates a much larger problem in the securitization market since many banks will not want to continue to own these securities after they have been downgraded since they will become classified as substandard (and now perceived as “toxic”).  And certainly because of the substandard classification issue, other banks are extremely hesitant to buy more of these securities.  So what we are now left with is a huge decrease in demand for these securities, and a lot of banks being forced to sell these securities because of downgrades (increasing supply in the market).  This, in a nutshell, is why prices have plummeted for mortgage securities and the secondary mortgage market is no longer functioning as it used to.
 
I hope that helps.  Your example and questions touch on the very reason we feel so strongly about the need to revamp the current ratings system.  This must happen before we can realistically expect to get the secondary mortgage market moving again, which in turn must happen before our economy truly recovers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Perry-</p>
<p>You’ve asked several excellent questions.  And you hit the nail on the head regarding some of our strongest issues with the current ratings system.  The current ratings system has no way of representing the magnitude of losses on a security.  The ratings provided by the rating agencies reflect the likelihood of a bond not paying 100% of principal, but make no representation of how much principal they are projecting will be lost once that bond is determined not to pay back 100% of principal.  For example:  Are you going to lose all of your money or just 1%?  The current system does not tell us this.  This becomes a serious issue when dealing with multiple-obligor securities.  The example you provided refers to a multi-obligor security (in this case a Mortgage-Backed Security) which is comprised of a large amount of excellent borrowers who are still paying their mortgages as contracted.  Unfortunately, in your example, the rating on the bond would be downgraded to CCC or lower, even if all 900 paying borrowers continued to pay their mortgages until full payment is made. </p>
<p>For an individual investor, the rating may not be prohibitive.  However, for banks that own this security, once it’s been downgraded to below investment grade (and possibly purchased originally with a AAA rating), the entire balance of their investment will be classified as substandard.  You read that right.  Even the “performing” portion of the security will be classified since the entire security has been rated CCC (or worse).  </p>
<p>As you might suspect, this in turn creates a much larger problem in the securitization market since many banks will not want to continue to own these securities after they have been downgraded since they will become classified as substandard (and now perceived as “toxic”).  And certainly because of the substandard classification issue, other banks are extremely hesitant to buy more of these securities.  So what we are now left with is a huge decrease in demand for these securities, and a lot of banks being forced to sell these securities because of downgrades (increasing supply in the market).  This, in a nutshell, is why prices have plummeted for mortgage securities and the secondary mortgage market is no longer functioning as it used to.</p>
<p>I hope that helps.  Your example and questions touch on the very reason we feel so strongly about the need to revamp the current ratings system.  This must happen before we can realistically expect to get the secondary mortgage market moving again, which in turn must happen before our economy truly recovers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sorting Out Capitalization Requirements And Bond Ratings by Brian Battle</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/sorting-out-capitalization-requirements-and-bond-ratings/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Battle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?p=491#comment-75</guid>
		<description>Cate - I agree with transparency and transferring back to investors the fiduciary duty they offloaded to the NRSROs. 

We DO need to protect the FDIC fund. One way is to re-impose Glass-Stiegel. I prefer a sliding capital scale:
If you are a $100mm bank, 8% capital.
If you want to be a $500mm bank, 10% capital.
If you are a $10B bank, 20% capital.
If you want to be a $1T bank, 50% capital.

Capital requirements should increase with risk to the insurance fund. But use some sliding scale that makes banks build reserves in the good times, and let them pick how big they want to be vs. the capital requirement. 

However. Securitization didnt cause the &quot;credit crisis&quot;;  leverage did. We should not allow any securitized asset from getting a government guarantee unless it meets strict (80/20, prooof of income) lending standards and the Trust agrees to electronic full disclosure at least annually (like munis).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cate &#8211; I agree with transparency and transferring back to investors the fiduciary duty they offloaded to the NRSROs. </p>
<p>We DO need to protect the FDIC fund. One way is to re-impose Glass-Stiegel. I prefer a sliding capital scale:<br />
If you are a $100mm bank, 8% capital.<br />
If you want to be a $500mm bank, 10% capital.<br />
If you are a $10B bank, 20% capital.<br />
If you want to be a $1T bank, 50% capital.</p>
<p>Capital requirements should increase with risk to the insurance fund. But use some sliding scale that makes banks build reserves in the good times, and let them pick how big they want to be vs. the capital requirement. </p>
<p>However. Securitization didnt cause the &#8220;credit crisis&#8221;;  leverage did. We should not allow any securitized asset from getting a government guarantee unless it meets strict (80/20, prooof of income) lending standards and the Trust agrees to electronic full disclosure at least annually (like munis).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sorting Out Capitalization Requirements And Bond Ratings by Cate Long</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/sorting-out-capitalization-requirements-and-bond-ratings/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Cate Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?p=491#comment-74</guid>
		<description>Transparency is needed and require banks and all investors to do more due diligence in addition to using credit ratings.

Also restrict deposit taking banks from proprietary trading...

Securitization is the tough one... 

http://freerisk.org/wiki/index.php/Securitization</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transparency is needed and require banks and all investors to do more due diligence in addition to using credit ratings.</p>
<p>Also restrict deposit taking banks from proprietary trading&#8230;</p>
<p>Securitization is the tough one&#8230; </p>
<p><a href="http://freerisk.org/wiki/index.php/Securitization" rel="nofollow">http://freerisk.org/wiki/index.php/Securitization</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on There Are Many Ways To Be Precise by Brian Battle</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/there-are-many-ways-to-be-precise-2/comment-page-1/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Battle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?p=481#comment-71</guid>
		<description>Most of the solutions listed on this site for the ratings problems lead to more transparency, more descriptive ratings and fuller disclosure. Some things were the fault of the ratings agencies, not EVERYTHING. Due dilligence will hopefully come back into vogue. Risk pricing will reflect real risk. The risk of loss needs to be priced into financial decisions. Using the ratings system we have and improving it seems to be the best path. Let&#039;s fix the short commings in the system. Not villify the raters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the solutions listed on this site for the ratings problems lead to more transparency, more descriptive ratings and fuller disclosure. Some things were the fault of the ratings agencies, not EVERYTHING. Due dilligence will hopefully come back into vogue. Risk pricing will reflect real risk. The risk of loss needs to be priced into financial decisions. Using the ratings system we have and improving it seems to be the best path. Let&#8217;s fix the short commings in the system. Not villify the raters.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What is a Toxic Security? by Brian Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/what-is-a-toxic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?page_id=306#comment-69</guid>
		<description>In a bundle of 1000 loans pooled into a single security all the loans start out making payments on time and the security is rated AAA. Then over time, let&#039;s say 100 loans or 10% fall into default (delinquent payments) and those loans now have an increasing likelihood of some future realized partial loss (severity) thru foreclosure.  So now I understand why the ratings downgrade from AAA.  But wait, aren&#039;t the other 900 loans still paying on time with never a missed payment?  Aren&#039;t those 900 loans still considered excellent credit and rated AAA?  How does the rating agency blend the rating to reflect the portion of excellent credits with the riskier credits? How does the rating scale relate to the percent of loss the investor can expect? Are bank examiners classifying the entire security as doubtful or loss based solely on a below investment grade rating or are they analyzing the underlying collateral and classifying only that portion of the security, the 100 loans out of 1000,  that is doubtful or loss?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a bundle of 1000 loans pooled into a single security all the loans start out making payments on time and the security is rated AAA. Then over time, let&#8217;s say 100 loans or 10% fall into default (delinquent payments) and those loans now have an increasing likelihood of some future realized partial loss (severity) thru foreclosure.  So now I understand why the ratings downgrade from AAA.  But wait, aren&#8217;t the other 900 loans still paying on time with never a missed payment?  Aren&#8217;t those 900 loans still considered excellent credit and rated AAA?  How does the rating agency blend the rating to reflect the portion of excellent credits with the riskier credits? How does the rating scale relate to the percent of loss the investor can expect? Are bank examiners classifying the entire security as doubtful or loss based solely on a below investment grade rating or are they analyzing the underlying collateral and classifying only that portion of the security, the 100 loans out of 1000,  that is doubtful or loss?</p>
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		<title>Comment on We Need To Retain Control by Brian Battle</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/we-need-to-retain-control-2/comment-page-1/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Battle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/we-need-to-retain-control-2/#comment-68</guid>
		<description>If the choice is between these two, an industry controlled ratings agency is vastly superior to government controlled or government managed ratings. 

Government Ratings would be susceptible to political / social goal setting.

ie:  Is it &quot;fair &quot; for Detroit to pay more to borrow than DesMoines?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the choice is between these two, an industry controlled ratings agency is vastly superior to government controlled or government managed ratings. </p>
<p>Government Ratings would be susceptible to political / social goal setting.</p>
<p>ie:  Is it &#8220;fair &#8221; for Detroit to pay more to borrow than DesMoines?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Goodbye, Ratings? by Lawrence Kramer</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/goodbye-ratings/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Kramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?p=405#comment-61</guid>
		<description>Brian - Actually, it doesn&#039;t matter who pays - costs are fungible.  What matters is who has the risk.  If the rater has skin in the game, it won&#039;t matter who writes the check.  

The conflict in interests arose because the raters had no stake (beyond reputation) in the quality of their ratings.  Obviously, reputation matters - it accounted for the high credibility that the agencies enjoyed before they went south.   But the late unpleasantness has put people in a state of mind where the actual dollar incentives of facing actual human beings will be given the greatest weight by the market.

My UL model is not a &quot;user pays&quot; approach.  Issuers pay for credit enhancement.  I&#039;m merely suggesting that the rater have a financial stake in investment results, and, of course, that the people who make the call get paid on those results and not on issuer-paid revenues.  

All of these changes will be judged by the bond markets, which will believe the ratings or won&#039;t.  The spread between corporate and Treasury rates will measure the confidence that the raters have earned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian &#8211; Actually, it doesn&#8217;t matter who pays &#8211; costs are fungible.  What matters is who has the risk.  If the rater has skin in the game, it won&#8217;t matter who writes the check.  </p>
<p>The conflict in interests arose because the raters had no stake (beyond reputation) in the quality of their ratings.  Obviously, reputation matters &#8211; it accounted for the high credibility that the agencies enjoyed before they went south.   But the late unpleasantness has put people in a state of mind where the actual dollar incentives of facing actual human beings will be given the greatest weight by the market.</p>
<p>My UL model is not a &#8220;user pays&#8221; approach.  Issuers pay for credit enhancement.  I&#8217;m merely suggesting that the rater have a financial stake in investment results, and, of course, that the people who make the call get paid on those results and not on issuer-paid revenues.  </p>
<p>All of these changes will be judged by the bond markets, which will believe the ratings or won&#8217;t.  The spread between corporate and Treasury rates will measure the confidence that the raters have earned.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Goodbye, Ratings? by Brian Battle</title>
		<link>http://www.theratingsdebate.com/goodbye-ratings/comment-page-1/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Battle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theratingsdebate.com/?p=405#comment-60</guid>
		<description>Lawrence- Great point. The Congressional examination will really focus on the easy to illustrate &quot;conflict of interest&quot;. Certainly the ratings agencies were gamed, or duped. The ratings agencies level of complicity is to be fully discovered. They were also under earnings pressure and sought higher fee business.  It doesnt look good.    There are legal avenue of prosecution if laws were broken. To your point, I think there is room for the  &quot;Issuer pays&quot; and &quot;user pays models&quot;. Lets have the market decide.                     We need to focus part of the fiducuary duty back on the investors.     
HOWEVER;  The effects of the downgraded, high quality assets is partially what ailes the economy generally. Lets use the system we have, but improve it.
thanks for the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lawrence- Great point. The Congressional examination will really focus on the easy to illustrate &#8220;conflict of interest&#8221;. Certainly the ratings agencies were gamed, or duped. The ratings agencies level of complicity is to be fully discovered. They were also under earnings pressure and sought higher fee business.  It doesnt look good.    There are legal avenue of prosecution if laws were broken. To your point, I think there is room for the  &#8220;Issuer pays&#8221; and &#8220;user pays models&#8221;. Lets have the market decide.                     We need to focus part of the fiducuary duty back on the investors.<br />
HOWEVER;  The effects of the downgraded, high quality assets is partially what ailes the economy generally. Lets use the system we have, but improve it.<br />
thanks for the comment.</p>
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